Not all monsters are supernatural - some could be the guy next door. In this episode we discuss What Lies Beneath, Norman Spencer, and what it takes to be a human monster.
Not all monsters are supernatural - some could be the guy next door. In this episode we discuss What Lies Beneath, Norman Spencer, and what it takes to be a human monster.
Check out the haunted house video here: Eerie Unknown
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You're listening to How I Met Your Monster, a podcast that explores the introductions to your favorite movie, Monsters. My name is Zack. I'm Danny, and I'm Casey. And together we dive into the world of horror to find out how filmmakers have introduced us to our favorite monsters time and time again. This is how I met your mother.
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You okay? We met him 15 years ago. I was told there's nothing less explorers in the regions. Experience demons to Southeast Asians to others. He didn't call me.
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Yes. Surprise. I know. Hello, everybody. Welcome to How I Met Your Monster Season three. We're off to a great start. So, three, I'm Zack Windsock. And I'm Danny Selim. Major spoilers in this episode. If you have not watched What Lies Beneath in the past 12 months or ever or ever. Fair warning. This is a spoiler filled episode, but this is all they're all spoiler filled episodes.
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I don't know. Here's the thing why I say that. Here's the thing. If you haven't seen a movie and someone tells you about the movie, that's a spoiler filled conversation. Now, if you've seen the movie and you're talking about the movie, some spoilers. That's just how it is, folks. It's just how it works. But you know what's funny?
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It's actually not really funny. It actually makes me really mad. I'll laugh just to be nice. So movie websites, right? Movie news websites. Okay, let me set up the story. Okay. Super pumped mortal combat is being released. Yeah. Right. I've got it kept up on the TV. Just waiting to start it. Waiting for everyone to get situated.
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I'm scrolling on Facebook or whatever. While I'm waiting, there is a movie website, movie news website that posted a image of a character in Mortal Kombat with the title of so-and-so signs on for four more Mortal Kombat movies. And and I was so pissed because why would see, okay, why would you do that? The unreleased day. That's the opposite of burying the lead.
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That's just like, Here's the lead. Right. You don't do that on release day. But you guys who will remain nameless are more concerned about being the first one to break a story and getting the clicks. Yeah. So you're going to ruin a certain aspect of the movie for however big your audience is going to be. Thousands of people.
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Yeah, I know. I know of a similar website like that that will also be nameless that made a similar mistake that ended up not only ruining it actually did not ruin any movie or spoilers, but actually ruined some of their credibility at the time. They are really you got to be careful, you know, when the news breaks, you don't want to be first.
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You just want to be right or something like that. Yeah, I'm sure there's. All right. But like you're a movie website. These are like that. I'm a human being. I'm not a movie website, but like, where are your people? Like, why would you ruin it for us? Or just put, like, spoiler, you know, like. Yeah, like, come up with a different just, you know, instead of writing out the character's name, just like, block it out, you know, be like, keep reading to find out more.
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Yeah. Simple guys show a picture of like, just put, like, the poster of Mortal Kombat or like a picture of, of all the people in from, like, promotional materials and say, click to find out who. Yeah, probably without question I'm down for more. Exactly. Guess who signed on. Yes. Which Mortal Kombat character is gonna be back for four more movies?
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I guess. Which people might argue is a little clickbait. But yeah, I feel like that. I feel like that sort of quote, clickbait material or title is good is only appropriate when there are spoilers involved. Right. You know, and like, even if you would have waited until Monday past opening weekend to post that story. Yeah, but they just wanted to be first.
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Like, let the movie breathe, people. Yeah. Jason Come on, man. Did you see Mortal Kombat? I did. Yeah, I enjoyed it. I loved, loved, loved The opening scene. I do think I would have loved to see a movie that was kind of kept that sort of atmosphere and even like, period setting. That said, I still enjoy the movie as a whole.
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That was pretty fun. Absolutely. I loved it. And it's getting so much hate on the Internet. It's because, you know, it's fans there. I guess you talk them. It's like the fans want the same. They want the same. But they want it different. Yeah. If you give them the same movie, then they're pissed because it's the same. But if you change it up and do anything different, they're pissed because it's different.
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I totally understand people's criticisms. Totally. See, like where they got to them and why. Why they. Why they feel the way they feel. But at the same time, it's never no movie. You know, anything is ever going to meet everyone's expectations. So the fact that it was able to be as successful as it was in terms of adapting the source material, I give them a lot of credit.
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I thought they did a really bang up job and. absolutely. I mean, like I feel like you can really tell if a movie is good and maybe this isn't the best metric, but when it ends and you're like, I can't wait for the next one, I can't wait to see how they try to improve on this one.
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And because the fight scenes alone were just so, so much fun and, you know, seeing well, I was going to well, I guess can we cover spoilers? That's the more of that as well. I was like, we were literally just shitting out all these movie websites and I'm like, Well, not even going to proceed this out with a spoiler alert, but that, that yeah, my, my professional review of that movie was it was good.
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I liked it.
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It's people click on it and there's no article. It's just like, that's good. That's good. I like. But I love that day. Number one. I loved that they finally got the violence right. I love that they use actual fatalities from the game. Yeah. And I also loved that they put in not just like the classic characters, even ones they left out, but they put in some some.
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Yeah. Throughout the series. Yeah, I like that, too. And also, I feel like that just helps them too, in terms of being able to flesh out the roster in future. You know, in sequels. You know, like that little cliffhanger at the end, a little hint at who's going to be in the next movie, Right, for the credits.
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Yeah, I agree. It was a lot of fun. There was one moment in particular that I really enjoyed, which I feel like was I mean, it's that sort of like audience pleasing moment. Like that's absolutely the goal intended was when spoiler you get so vague when Scorpio and finally shows up in the finale and you hear the Mortal Kombat song coming and they just, they've already built them up to be such an interesting character because of like the whole intro and the back story and set up that it's such a fun payoff that, yeah, it was worth the wait.
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Yeah, I totally agree. Another thing that I enjoyed and this might maybe we have to move. Another thing I enjoyed was that was how the fight scenes were edited. Okay? Because they weren't those super quick cuts that you see in. totally. A lot of action films now. Yeah. You get to see that like real time action. Yeah.
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It's not like one second cuts where you're seeing all these different things and it's all pieced together like the camera didn't cut that much through out and everybody got cut a lot, but not as fast. Yeah. And so you could actually see the as a little more natural or organic. It also feels like how the game is set up to you know, the game is literally like a side scrolling.
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Yeah, exactly. So. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. That was a good call on their part. And hopefully we'll see more movies doing that. Not to say that you can't have a good, you know, quickly edited action scene, but I think I. I agree with you on that that watching it done in real time is much more effective and satisfying.
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So now back to the Mortal Kombat podcast. Yeah. Yeah. We should change the name of this to How I Met Your Immortals, how I Met your mortal. That's good. I got to think that. Well, I'll end on that presumptive high and we'll just move on. Yeah. So enough about Mortal Kombat. We are here today to talk about what lies beneath.
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And what lies beneath is a movie starring Michelle Pfeiffer and Harrison Ford from director Robert Zemeckis. In, I believe, the year 2000. The urban or 2000? 2000. Yeah, I was 14. Well, I was 12. So we're two years apart. Yeah. You're eating? I was. I was like, Yeah, Yeah, that's right. 2000. I was a freshman in high school.
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I was in preschool. I was an older preschooler. I stayed back on. And then you jumped up? Yeah. Then I was like, I'm ready to go. Put me in middle school. Yeah. You had your growth spurt? Yeah.
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I remember that. I wore a some kind of horror themed t shirt on my first day of school. It's nice, I guess. Like I wear, like, a michelle Pfeiffer shirt to this first screening of What Lies Beneath. I don't know why my head was going. That was very specific. You're like, Yes, Pfeiffer's got to do it. Let's do this.
00;11;35;17 - 00;12;04;01
I'm going to go see that new fight for movie. There's some people's names you just can't say yet. I just remember Boy Meets World, The The Scream Episode. Jennifer Love Pfefferman. Jennifer Love Pfefferman. And Michelle or Michelle Pfeiffer as Jennifer Love Pfefferman. Okay. I don't I get to laugh, but I don't know the reference. that's a show.
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That's an episode we need to cover. We need to have a whole episode dedicated to the Boy meets World Halloween episode titled And then there is Sean, which is like a spoof off of the Scream movies, but also I know you did last summer. Okay, It's pretty awesome. I watch it every year and it's it's really it's a classic.
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Yeah. Yeah, I'll have to check that out. I've never I've I've seen a few episodes of Boy Meets World, but I never got into it. And it's actually surprisingly violent and not bloodless that I actually mean that episode or just the whole series. Just the episode of Boy Meets World is able to bloody show. All right. So yeah, well, we're talking about what lies beneath.
00;12;55;03 - 00;13;20;01
So what lies beneath? So we've already gave our spoiler warnings, and so I'm just going to say it. Harrison Ford is a monster. He's the monster. And he's a good monster. Not a good match. He is. He gives us a very solid portrayal of a monster. That's right. Yeah. And you wouldn't think Harrison Ford. Well, you know, you don't.
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And that's actually a point that I want to bring up later about why it works so well. But we will we'll get to that. For those of you who don't know the movie, What Lies Beneath is a ghost story. Yeah, it is a spiritual journey through bath water. Bath water. So that's a good that's good. I like that.
00;13;51;14 - 00;14;24;14
Well, no. So, I mean, maybe this is jumping the gun, but I watched this with Nina. She had seen it for the first time. And she came back and said the title, What Lies Beneath is a triple entendre. Okay, let's hear it, because it's what lies beneath the water. Right. It's what lies beneath. Meaning? Like in your brain?
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Yeah, because it's you crazy. Who knows? And so that life, what lies beneath there in your brain. And also what lies beneath. Like everything like that. The what's on the other side of the veil to the spirit world. I like that. Isn't that. Yeah. Can know. That is. Let's see if we get. Let's see if we can find a fourth entendre.
00;14;51;23 - 00;15;18;23
What lies beneath What lies beneath the. The little metal grate in her living room or her study where she finds the key? yeah. What's beneath that furnace? Yeah. What's beneath that? Know what lies beneath? What lies? That's like you tell each other. It's like Yoda trying to figure out if Harrison. if Harrison. For Han Solo's lines.
00;15;18;23 - 00;15;48;22
Like what lies beneath the lies there? But it's not. Fun fact, Robert Zemeckis considered all of these things before writing. Did he write it? Actually, no. That can't be true. No, he directed it. I don't know who wrote it. I see. Clark. Gregg. Really? that's right. I didn't know that. And I remember being surprised by that the last time I read it is Clark Gregg, that person.
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That's. That's a tongue twister just to say his name. Clark's like Greg Clark. Clark with this story by Sarah Koenig. Ken. Clark. Gregg wrote The Avengers. He wrote that? No, he starred in The Avengers. No. He's that Clark Gregg. That's why I was like, Wait, what? And he wrote What Lies Beneath? Yeah, that's an okay, so people. So listeners, if you since we are not a visual podcast so anybody who's listening and doesn't know who Clark Gregg is, like, I didn't.
00;16;27;16 - 00;17;12;12
He is agent. He is Agent Phil Coulson in The Avengers. Yeah. And Agents of Shield. Yeah. You may also know him from the screenwriting credits on What Lies Beneath his. J k You wouldn't in reading either. Let's see. man. Iron Man. Yeah, he was. Iron Man was, like, the first. Yeah. Well, technically, technically, if we want to get into technically, the Incredible Hulk was, But then that was delayed.
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Well, that was definitely Marvel. That wasn't the MCU, but it will be with Mahershala Ali. just pretty cool. Okay. I love him. And for anyone who's still interested in Clark Gregg, he also played FBI Special Agent Michael Casper for eight episodes of The West Wing. It's true. Stolen. If there's any West Wing fans out there. Yeah, well, also.
00;17;39;19 - 00;17;59;02
Well, apparently fans. Rumor has it Robert Zemeckis visited the set of The West Wing, and it was like, Clark, you really. You really seem to be good at what you're doing. But what lies beneath, you know, like what else? What else are you good at? And he's like, Well, I have this screenplay, incidentally. It's called What Lies Beneath, And thus started their working relationship.
00;17;59;03 - 00;18;28;25
Yeah. Just a little bit inside biz info for all you listeners out there that actually happen. Not at all. A fabrication of anything. Here's a fun fact. Here's a fun connection. Clark Gregg wrote What Lies Beneath, starring Harrison Ford, who starred as Indiana Jones. Which was directed by Steven Spielberg, who produced Back to the Future, which was directed by Robert Zemeckis.
00;18;28;28 - 00;18;51;16
Wow. Okay. That you met when we came to a fork in the road. You went one way. I'm going to go the other way. I love I took the road less traveled. That's right. Because I was going to say Clark Gregg wrote What Lies Beneath with Harrison Ford, starring Harrison Ford, who is Indiana Jones? And Clark Gregg was in one episode of the young Indiana Jones Chronicles.
00;18;51;18 - 00;19;18;25
no kidding. Yes. So you're probably better. No, I think they're both equally wonderful. Well, that's good. I appreciate the. No, Zach, I'm going to go even one step further. Yours was better. Should we jump into this movie finally? Yeah. Let's go. Beneath what lies beneath What's beneath the surface? We already know Harrison Ford is the bad guy.
00;19;18;27 - 00;19;50;07
Yeah, right. Well, the movie says want to not to kill you off, but the movie does want us to believe that the bad guy is several other characters. yes. Which I feel like we'll sort of, like, navigate through as we talk about the real monster. Right. But just as like, a foreshadowing aspect, the first time we see Harrison Ford, the first time we are introduced to this monster.
00;19;50;09 - 00;20;14;17
His hand comes around out of frame. Yes. And like. Like it's going around her neck. I just know Zach. I was like that. Yeah. The first thing he's sneaking up, it's, like, menacing, but then innocent. Yeah. And so right off the bat, you don't know what to think because you're not. I mean, obviously, you're not making that connection about him choking her, but it's there.
00;20;14;23 - 00;20;35;28
And also and this may be a little bit of a stretch, but there is also this sort of, you know, like passionate, intimate nature to it of like, you know, it's a hug, but it could also be like misconstrued as like a strangle. And that's kind of what happens with his victim, which ends up making. Well, I guess that doesn't make him the monster.
00;20;35;28 - 00;20;58;01
But the fact, you know, like his victim, he kills and in the throes of passion. So it's just there is and we may be reading too much into subtext here, but I also feel like it it fits very neatly into that, like you said, like when you watch it a second time's like, son of a bitch. Yeah.
00;20;58;04 - 00;21;23;12
Yeah. The screenplay is so good. It really is. I know a lot of people have had criticized it. Maybe not so much anymore, but in the past sort of thing. Too much. Not a knockoff of Hitchcock movies, but sort of. It was just trying to have fun being to kind of, like, play with that Hitchcock template, sort of.
00;21;23;15 - 00;21;45;04
But I think that sort of undermines how good it really is. Like you said, it just has a really strong script. The subtext is there and it's very clever. Like even there's even up. Yeah, like even in that moment he's he says this jokingly, but he's like, All right, well, I'm going to go for a run. He's like, I can't stand rejection.
00;21;45;06 - 00;22;04;23
And it's has this little like sliver of we're seeing like, who he is as a character. It's like, yeah, he's kind of being passive about that. He's joking, but he means it. He's like, I can't stand rejection. He's. And that plays into that whole idea of his character being a full on narcissist. You know, he's a manipulator.
00;22;04;23 - 00;22;37;11
His textbook narcissism looks like basically every scene that he's and you can kind of get little hints of it sometimes. It's sort of elaborated on a little bit more clearly, and sometimes it's just sort of in his little nuances. But it yeah, you get that that narcissism and manipulation. Literally the first time you meet him, he acts as though he's like this great genius, but he really just sort of inherited a lot of what he has from his father.
00;22;37;14 - 00;23;07;14
And even when Claire, his wife, kind of mentions that in passing, he's such a baby about it, you know, he's like and she's like and she even calls me. She's like, You're so sensitive about it. And he can't even lighten up where you see and you see that it's just he's so rigidly selfish and focused on himself and he doesn't have the self-awareness to be like, I'm being overdramatic or I'm, you know, I'm totally, you know.
00;23;07;15 - 00;23;30;06
Right. It just it's those little elements that really make him actually kind of an interesting and interesting character, layered character, but a very hateful character. Ultimately. Yeah. Which you could easily write off as just like, okay, you can be an asshole and not a bad guy necessarily. And in this case, it's like, no, he's a bad guy.
00;23;30;06 - 00;24;00;07
And I'm going to show you like that. He's also an asshole. There's there's just all of these things. There's the narcissism, the manipulation, the gaslighting. Every time Claire brings something up, he either tells her she's being ridiculous or makes it about him, Right? You know? Yeah. He's like when she's in it, when there's. Yeah, when she. She sees the ghost in the house and she runs in to his office the first time she kind of breaks down.
00;24;00;14 - 00;24;20;15
Yeah. And spills, spills everything out and he immediately puts it back to him. Yeah. Like right away, if she's trying to ruin him. Yeah. And she's like, No, she literally calls him out. She's like, This isn't about trying to one up you. This is. I'm just. I'm trying to talk to you about something that's really bothering me. And he can't do it.
00;24;20;15 - 00;24;45;18
And it's, it's funny. It's not until she goes out into public when he's like, Hey, what do you need? Because he's so it's always about him. It's like, what if she says something that could eventually lead, you know, just something where people are looking at him in a negative way. It freaks him out because especially because of what happened in the past, which is him killing his student who he was having an affair with.
00;24;45;21 - 00;25;13;16
Right. Well, I even notice, like just Harrison Ford being the kind of man that he is or that he portrays to the public. Yeah. In you know, in all his roles, he has this I don't say all his roles, but he's like, he's a man. Yeah. I mean, Scott is and so he's. He's just like that old fashioned, like, good guy.
00;25;13;19 - 00;25;41;17
Right. And so going along with his his character in this movie where it's all about him, he's so afraid of ruining his image and all this stuff. When she goes to confront the neighbor, she, like, sees him in the in the building and she goes and yells at him and says, you know, you killed your wife, blah, blah, blah, you're a murderer.
00;25;41;19 - 00;26;05;20
And he shows up and he's so, like, timid. Yeah, he's embarrassed, he's timid. He's like, he doesn't know what to do. It's it's very much the sign of an abuser where he has so much power over his victim, but only in a certain sort of only in a certain environment. You know, it's like he sort of brought her.
00;26;05;22 - 00;26;30;17
There's there's so much to really unpack with him as a character, I think, is that I don't know if I'm like kind of stepping over what you were saying or if that sort of like feeds into it. No, I just I just notice like, I just noticed a and this is like to Harrison Ford's credit as just such a good actor is that, you know, he's he just completely changed on how like Harrison Ford usually carries.
00;26;30;18 - 00;26;47;23
Yeah you know what I mean? And it goes back to just like like have the way you describe it is that he's got all this power and he's a big man and all this stuff, but only in settings where he can control it. Yeah. And when she's out in public, like breaking down in front of everybody is not to do.
00;26;47;27 - 00;27;13;24
Yeah, he's just as vulnerable as Claire. Except Claire's vulnerability is healthy, whereas his is obviously just very toxic because he doesn't know how to process it or manage it whatsoever. you know, kind of jumping off of what you're saying about how Harrison Ford always played that sort of, you know, everyman, kind of like classic hero, good guy.
00;27;13;26 - 00;27;36;20
I really like how in this movie, The Abuser, you know, because you don't realize he's the abuser or the abuser is presented as like the hero. You know, they literally cast Indiana Jones as this guy. So you're like, totally buying into this idea that I trust him. I feel safe with him. He can be, you know, kind of, you know, rough around the edges.
00;27;36;20 - 00;28;04;12
But I know I can count on him. Whereas she the victim is kind of presented as well, literally not Claire, but the victim is presented as a threat. You know, we have this literally have a ghost that's haunting this house. So we're immediately we start the movie watching it with that lens of being afraid of this person and trusting of this person, only to see the roles completely reversed, which I feel like is another.
00;28;04;16 - 00;28;28;04
It's almost like the script is manipulating us in the same way that Harrison Ford is manipulating his wife, Claire, where it's like you're just it's I mean, that's like textbook gaslighting. It's just like we're showing you something, but that's not what it really is. And you only think that because you have these preconceptions. So it's sort of like feeling what she's feeling in that regard.
00;28;28;06 - 00;29;07;20
That's crazy because that's very you can take the screenplay to a whole nother level. Yeah, in the filmmaking process, not just by visuals, but like mentally, by using actors that, you know, you're so familiar with in another role that you just subconsciously bring that over. It's that whole, like, subversion of expectations. Right. I mean, you are kind of setting up, but I mean, that's storytelling, you know, it's just like you said, it's just a it's you're just using different elements to tell a story to sort of set the audience up for something only to pull the rug out from underneath them.
00;29;07;22 - 00;29;29;08
Right. And whether or not those things are, like, obvious, is it just the fact that it works on a subconscious level, I think is what makes this story is what elevates the story so much more than, you know, like another and, you know, any other sort of like textbook haunted house story is just in a different class. Not a better class, just different.
00;29;29;11 - 00;29;53;29
Right. I agree. you just got me thinking how much I trust Indiana Jones. You know? Wait, This is the third reference to Indiana Jones that we've made so far. Yeah. I don't know if they spent this or it was not, but now I think we need to keep it going. Yeah, it was. That was just. It just happened to do that.
00;29;54;01 - 00;30;29;20
But now we have to make a point. We have to make an Indiana Jones reference in How I Met Your Monster episode. I love it. That's amazing. well, we'll find a way to do it because Indiana Jones is has a special place in my heart. He does indeed. I remember in college, as you may and I don't know who else went, but we went to go see the movie The Spiderwick Chronicles at Midnight because they were premiering the trailer for Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
00;30;29;22 - 00;30;58;00
That's right. And we actually surprised to get to go see Spiderwick, but I left. You didn't see it? Yeah, I watched the trailer in left. I don't know why. It was like, You know what? I'm here. I might as well enjoy it. I do. Yeah, but, yeah, that's okay. I don't think I was the target audience, so not going to hold that against it.
00;30;58;02 - 00;31;29;04
But yeah, what a what a shame. Yeah. To go, you know, to pay a full price for a ticket, to see a trailer for a movie that ultimately ended up disappearing, being what it was. Yeah. Although I really shouldn't complain because I think I saw Kingdom of the Crystal Skull five times in in the theater. That's crazy. And that's.
00;31;29;04 - 00;31;54;24
And that's considered the best in the franchise, too, so. it's the absolute best in the franchise. You're going to have to do some rewatches to see if films don't hold up as well as we thought. They didn't like. For example, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Maybe it's not as bad as a remember Spider it tackles. Same for that film.
00;31;54;26 - 00;32;28;13
You never know. But a decade and a half might do to a movie. I don't think a decade and a half could fix that movie. No, I love it. And I will always love it because it is Indiana Jones, but only for that reason. Yeah, well, fun fact. And speaking of going to see movies, just to see the trailer, I saw the movie A.I. Artificial Intelligence three times, just to see the teaser trailer for Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone.
00;32;28;15 - 00;32;56;29
Not only that, not just the trailer, the teaser trailer. it was just the teaser trailer. I was like, So giddy about it, and I don't know if I knew that it was premiering in there. I just remember after the fact being like, Mom, please, we have to go again. Yeah, She was like, well, we have a weird kid that's doesn't really know how to prioritize his time, but okay, I you probably said through each showing of A.I..
00;32;57;01 - 00;33;30;18
yeah, 100%. Just like a very. really? It's a dark movie. It's. I mean, I was in that young. That was. I mean, it must have been summer 2001, I'm guessing, for A.I., so that would have made me about 11 or 12. But still the. Yeah, Yeah. He's a little messed with your head. It's think of E.T., but yeah, it's like the the whole outsider idea, you know, sci fi outsider idea.
00;33;30;24 - 00;34;01;12
But it kind of comes at it. Its approach is a little less heartwarming. I don't know if this is a coincidence or if it's just I don't know what you would call this. There is a character of super nerd in A.I. who is played by Clark Gregg. my God. The plot, like getting Clark Gregg is everywhere, friggin everywhere in six degrees and in Macon.
00;34;01;14 - 00;34;37;27
It's the one degree of Clark Gregg one degree. And I didn't even know his name before this. There are a few who do. All right, Well, okay, so. Okay, so to kind of real it back to what lies beneath and the the monster who's sort of pulling the strings. One thing I noticed after this latest rewatch was that I was just looking I was trying to hone in on all of the the shitty qualities that Harrison Ford that Norman has in the movie.
00;34;38;00 - 00;35;03;00
And one thing I noticed that was really that I thought was really kind of fucked up was the fact something we don't even really see on screen. It's sort of a back story element is that Harrison Ford's character, Norman, basically targets Claire Michelle Pfeiffer's character when she's vulnerable, which is just another example of the his control over her.
00;35;03;00 - 00;35;26;18
You know, like she it's because he she loses her husband, you know, and he kind of and I'm not you know, who you know, that's not to say like his approach wasn't, you know, gallant or anything, but he almost the way they sort of set it up is she's leading this wonderful life. She's a musician. Her husband supports her passions.
00;35;26;21 - 00;36;01;04
You know, she has a child all of this stuff and then she loses her husband meets this guy is obviously feeling very vulnerable, as you know, the in the situation that she's been put in and she ends up having to give up her passions so that she can support his passions. And it's just like it's the first of many moments where we see how he has whether or not it's a conscious decision on his part, just totally take advantage of her.
00;36;01;07 - 00;36;23;00
Because in the movie it's like Norman is kind of presents himself as this victim. Everything's, like woe is me sort of thing, right? But then you look at Claire, who is actually the character who's going through the most and is actually trying to deal with it. You know, she you know, we start with the fact that she lost her husband.
00;36;23;00 - 00;36;46;03
She gives up her passions for Norman. She's then cheated on by Norman. She's then in a severe car accident. She's then and then her daughter leaves for college. She's worried about her neighbor who may or may not be dead, and the other one who may or may not be a killer. And on top of that, she's literally being haunted by a ghost who she later finds out is the victim of her husband.
00;36;46;04 - 00;37;24;18
To her, she's the one suffering and she's, you know, paired up with this character who she relies on for support and trusting in love and he's the one who's who has such little has such a small amount of respect for that. He presents these struggles that she's dealing with as these, like, ridiculous, you know, like things that are prompting ridiculous behavior, basically, which just kind of, you know, really heightens how horrible he is.
00;37;24;20 - 00;37;50;18
He's a bit of a monster. I noticed that, you know, her her fears are never validated or any of her paranoia or concerns or anything is ever validated by her partner. You know, Norman, in the but every almost I don't know, maybe almost every time she meets another character, they validate these things. You know, when she talks her friend Judy, she's like, there could be a ghost in there.
00;37;50;18 - 00;38;23;00
I'm even going to help you. Maybe contact her. Her old friend Alena, she also immediately buys into it. There's never like they're never casting doubt on her, like, you're just being ridiculous. You're being this. Whereas Norman, when he talks about the ghost thing, he's like, teasing her. It's there's never like a he's not a he hasn't created this sort of like safe space, which of course makes sense since he's his character's just a horrible person.
00;38;23;03 - 00;38;43;29
Right. What's your name? Jodie. Yeah. Does kind of make fun of her a bit when they're doing the science in the bath. That's true. That's true. But at least I would argue in that sense, she's still going along with it. She's still like it's like more playful. Whereas Norman will straight up just be like, Why are you doing this to me?
00;38;43;29 - 00;39;01;19
You know, like, it's just it's so much more it's like, that's like the toxic version of it, right? And Jodie is like it's like you said, she's still going through with it because her friend wants to do it, but she's just getting out like she's uncomfortable a little bit. Yeah. So that's her way to kind of release something.
00;39;01;19 - 00;39;27;05
And yeah, so it's also messed up too about the Jodie character is she's also manipulated by Norman because she's sort convinced by him because he's so good at rationalizing things, because he is he's a smart guy, so he knows what he's doing and he uses that as a strength to kind of play into these like horrible behaviors. And she's like, when Jodie and Claire end up having that heart to heart.
00;39;27;05 - 00;40;01;27
When Claire pieces everything together, Jodie's like, We did this because he thought it would help you. And obviously Norman is the one who orchestrated that whole approach. Like, don't tell Claire, don't do any of this. So it just goes to show like he Jodie is also a victim of that, which is horrible, which just also shows like the lengths to which like normal go just to like basically save his but yeah he'll even fake electrocute himself I know so dramatic.
00;40;01;29 - 00;40;26;27
Do you think that he used his his own the formula that he created or do you think he used his own Do you think he used his own formula to like, put it on himself so that he could lay there in the bathtub that long? That's a great point, because they do say in the movie that it lasts from 3 to 5 minutes, like varying.
00;40;27;00 - 00;40;47;28
And when she finds him, well, yeah, I guess he could have just waited until she got home and then, like, dousing itself with it. And yeah, I think that's totally doable because then it also plays in because I doubt they're going to be able to trace that, you know, because it's this, you know brand new sort of chemical.
00;40;48;00 - 00;41;27;07
I mean that I mean that's the extent of the medical expert, which is made very clear in a lot of these episodes of. I think that's a really good point, actually. Yeah, I think he totally must. He totally did that. Just you know, legitimize the fake accident. Yeah. Which putting that whole car crash storyline in there was a really good move I thought because that just it's a good way to give her that aspect of nothing's been right since the car crash and yeah crazy and all that.
00;41;27;10 - 00;41;50;17
Well that's funny that you bring that up because that's another great way that they toy around with the audience in their expectations with Harrison Ford because both Norman is the fact that they kind of tell you it's like no, he was not a loyal husband, You know, he went further than making a mistake. He outrageous cheated on his wife.
00;41;50;19 - 00;42;12;15
And so it does it's again to kind of bring it back to scream it kind of plays with your head again. And they did a similar thing with Billy where it's like they tell you he's actually he in this case, they tell you that he's actually not as innocent as he seems. And in screen they tell you that he could have been the killer.
00;42;12;18 - 00;42;34;12
But it's at that midway, you know that midpoint in the movie where you're like, well, they wouldn't give that away now. So it gives you that, you know, like you start to doubt it in the same way Claire's doubting. It's like, well, I'm a willing to forgive you for being a cheater. And the fact that we're confronting this issue now must suggest that you're.
00;42;34;12 - 00;42;57;00
No, there's nothing else that we need to unravel, only which I think makes it actually more effective that in the end, when you do find out he is the bad guy, it's that's again, it's the same thing with Scream and Billy. It's like it just keeps they're just toying with your head in the same way that these characters are toying with, you know, Claire or Sidney.
00;42;57;03 - 00;43;26;18
Man, you can bring anything back to scream, can't you? and I can bring anything back to Clark Gregg, and I can bring anything back to scream. You. Clark. Gregg was actually in Scream. He plays. He's the stuntman who plays all the ghosts. Yeah, that's right. He's also the voice of Ghostface. Yeah. Clark Gregg. His pen name is Roger L Jackson, and he pretends he's this other actor to voice the character.
00;43;26;20 - 00;44;07;07
You never see. That's only funny to you, because I know that the voice of the screaming phone calls is Roger J. And, well, ultimately, as I agree, it's I got to have a good laugh about that. You know that the voice of Ghostface is also the voice of Mojo Jojo in the Powerpuff Girls. I did not. Yeah. I want to make sure the correct thing about Powerpuff Girls that I know is that one of them is voiced by Elizabeth Daly, who played Dottie in Pee Wee's Big Adventure.
00;44;07;10 - 00;44;48;22
No kidding. Yep. Which also starred Clark Gregg for All of the Wire. Yeah, for all we know. Know He's that guy. He's that. He's that doctor in in Pee-Wee's Nightmare. That sequence that he ripped off his mask and it's got like a clown thing. He's mother's Marge. Yeah, he's Marge smart, but he's only Marge in the Phenix when she has the big guys a So Gregg is a well-rounded soul rest and just kind of do anything, you know, step aside.
00;44;48;22 - 00;45;12;19
Daniel Day-Lewis, Watch your back. Meryl Streep, Clark Gregg's in the room. That's right. I did have a I did have this random kind of throwaway thought that I don't even know if it's worth talking about. But just to sort of add to the subtext in the story and not even subtext in this case, but this sort of like more subconscious stuff that maybe isn't as literal or apparent.
00;45;12;21 - 00;45;57;14
I thought it was interesting that she Claire is so paranoid and she has reason to, but she's so paranoid about the husband who lives next door. And I wonder if this may be a stretch, but I wonder if because she, you know, she only doesn't remember what her husband did because of the accident. I wonder if subconsciously she's sort of like projecting that onto this neighbor to make it sort of like, okay, maybe he's you know, we find out that he's actually not as bad as she believed, and maybe she only thought that he was that bad and potentially a killer because she had that somewhere like, you know, in the back of her head,
00;45;57;17 - 00;46;24;03
like in her subconscious of like the husband character being not the good guy that you want him to be. But then again, I guess you could argue that Mary here, the wife, she kind of makes pretty well, she makes it pretty apparent that there is something going on, even though it ends up being not as bad as murder.
00;46;24;05 - 00;46;51;06
I thought that that eyeball in the. I thought that one gag was pretty. It wasn't that great. You can see it almost seems digitally inserted. Well, yeah. When she sees looking through the fence and it's really close and you're like, I just know an eyeball is going to pop up. Yeah. Then there it is. Bam! I was kind of like, okay, it's funny though.
00;46;51;06 - 00;47;13;25
I did. I watched that with with Cody and his family and his mom choked it really, really hurt. So I thought that was pretty funny. But no, but I agree. It's sort of this I think it's because I think we've just seen that happen more often. So we're like just waiting for it. And I think for maybe a little.
00;47;13;25 - 00;47;39;03
I mean, well, that's bullshit. I was going to say I'm less sensitive to jump scares, but that's not true. Yeah, I love horror, but I'm also deeply affected by it. Right? I am so jumpy. Like everything. You want to know something? Dan and I probably shouldn't tell this to the masses. 30 to 30 people that are listening us.
00;47;39;05 - 00;48;06;11
A couple of months ago, I jumped at my own reflection in the refrigerator, like we have, like a stainless steel refrigerator. And I had one door open and I caught a glimpse of me in the other door and I completely jumped like a foot. Well, here's no one way around. Here's the twist. Why you really jumped was it's a matte surface.
00;48;06;11 - 00;48;29;28
So there was no reflection. Zach, what did you see? my gosh. I don't know why I worry about your refrigerator. That you do? I don't know, man. You were here in Oklahoma when it got delivered. That's. that's true. You had just landed in the airport. I have kind of like I would have what you say, like a Clark Gregg connection to your refrigerator.
00;48;30;04 - 00;49;08;28
Exactly. That's the best way to describe it. Yeah. Let's talk about the bathroom scenes. Yeah, the that very cool. And like, I mean, Robert Zemeckis, it's littered all over this movie is his his visual, his creative visual shots. Yeah. He loves having fun with his. He's been he's like remains to he continues experimenting with special effects the so a lot of time doesn't land yeah I agree and so it's just it's just so apparent right he almost doesn't want to hide it.
00;49;08;28 - 00;49;28;13
He's like, look what we did for break where they like she's like on the floor towards the end and he like goes the camera goes down, it goes like below the floor. And there's like a weird second where it just looks like a computer program. Yet you're like that. And then it's like, okay, did we really need that?
00;49;28;16 - 00;49;52;13
Is that I understand. Like, you want to push the limits and do all stuff, but Earth? Yeah, there's a time and a place for it. And I agree that's, that's the one thing, you know, you, you never want to be taken out of a movie, obviously. And that's the one thing that a lot of zemeckis's movies is, especially within the past like 15 maybe.
00;49;52;13 - 00;50;23;20
Maybe. I guess in this case 20 years where it's like, okay, I, you know, commend you on trying things and trying to break new ground and but let's, you know, it's okay to not put it front and center. Yeah. Yeah. If it's something like you, if it's a shot that's necessary to your storytelling and you have no other way to get it besides doing besides inventing some kind of new camera moves.
00;50;23;23 - 00;50;48;12
Yeah, whatever. Do it. But just to, like, go under the floor and see. Yeah. Somebody like it doesn't. The shot didn't warrant that. Yeah. You know, I mean, it's like one you just wanted to do rather than. Yeah. You just wanted it to be flashy and nothing stands out more than that. And it's like, okay. I mean sometimes it depends on the movie.
00;50;48;12 - 00;51;14;09
Like you can have fun with it, But this movie didn't really, you know, offer itself up for that sort of creative expedient. Needed it, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. So back to the bathroom scenes. The the first time she's in the bathroom, she comes out the door into her bedroom. Yeah, out into the hallway. This is all one shot.
00;51;14;11 - 00;51;39;19
She goes out of the bathroom, into the bedroom, out of the hallway, and then she's at the other door to the bathroom and it's all steamed up and foggy and the tub is full. Yeah, that was a cool shot. I love that moment. Those are the moments that really I mean, like talk about building up suspense, especially the fact that it follows up the scene before that where you sort of get some fake out scares.
00;51;39;21 - 00;52;03;19
yeah. So you're sort of like the tension is dropped and then it's sort of like like you said, like she returns only to double down on what you thought. Maybe it wasn't as real as she worried it was. Right. And they get all these things to make you think that this ghost is the monster is the guy.
00;52;03;21 - 00;52;27;14
Yeah. When she's coming, you know, she says, What do you want? She backs up and then you see in the mirror it says, it says, you know. Yeah. But at first you just see you. Yeah. And then that's menacing and then even, you know, is still menacing. Yeah. Well, so you're like, look like haunted house, you know, the ghost is, you know, messing with reality and.
00;52;27;21 - 00;52;55;29
Right. Trying to, like, scare you. But here's a test for you, Dan, because I know you've seen this a lot of times. Did you notice all the sneaky spots where they put in an image of the ghost? I don't know about all of them. I can try to think of them. I know we have the opening in the water, obviously, like with the title card.
00;52;56;01 - 00;53;20;02
Okay. Well, yeah, Yeah, okay. I was going to. I'm just going to go through as many as I can remember. Absolutely. When Claire, she either looks forward, backs away, and you see the ghosts just for like a half a second, right by her side, moving, like, moving away from the tub. Is that the scene you're referring to?
00;53;20;04 - 00;53;47;21
And then. Then there's the one in the water when she looks down on the lake. And then at the very end, I think, which is I feel like it's pretty obvious when, like, the camera pulls out and we see her face in this, I think in the snow. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I noticed one time in the it was when the bathroom was foggy and she's looking the mirror above the sink.
00;53;47;23 - 00;54;11;19
You see her. do you. Behind in the fog for like a second. She just disappears. I've never noticed that one. But then yeah, the one where she's like leaning over to the tub that's filled with water and you see her in the bottom right corner of the bed. Someone for a second. And then that I'm just going to be I'm just going to be rude to Robert Zemeckis here in case you're listening.
00;54;11;19 - 00;54;41;08
Robert, I'm sorry, but that ending in the graveyard in the fake snow scene was stupid. It was so dumb. It starts with C G snow. yeah. And then you go down into a cemetery set, which is clearly on a soundstage, made with fake, it was. I, I don't know. Now, why do you think he did that?
00;54;41;08 - 00;55;05;06
Do you think that was him trying to, like, flex that creative experimentation, or do you think he was limited by something that. I don't know. I mean, he probably he wanted to show the passage of time. Yeah. From being like summer where they're sailing. Well, it's like fall, I guess, because the leaves are changing and then some time has passed.
00;55;05;08 - 00;55;27;26
Yeah. You know, and they probably shot in the summer and then needed that one snow scene. So they shot in the studio and did whatever. But did it have to be in the snow? The only thing I could think of, well, I guess too, is trying to show a passage of time and then trying to get that shot of her face of the ghost face as it's.
00;55;27;29 - 00;55;52;22
Well, yeah, you do you wonder why going out why set it in the snow. Why go to those you know I'm assuming expense fairly expensive lengths to make be so specific about the environment in the in the season. My only guess would be I mean I'm sure I could try to think about it a little bit more, but my only guess was I know that Zemeckis was shooting.
00;55;52;24 - 00;56;14;05
He like basically was had been shooting Castaway and then was waiting for Tom Hanks to lose all that weight. So he needed something to do to fill the time. So he shot what lies beneath. And I'm wondering if he just had he's like, you know, I've had enough of these like sunny beaches and I just need some snow.
00;56;14;12 - 00;56;43;21
Or is because the movie's about death and winter's all about death. So another way that the film tries to get us to believe that the ghost is the actual villain, right after that bathroom scene where it says, you know, she's what you want and the mirror, she writes, you know, on the Mirror Michelle Pfeiffer cipher or just call it cipher five, five, five.
00;56;43;21 - 00;57;15;20
Captain Kevin five. McKay Pfeiffer runs downstairs. That's and runs into like the study or whatever his office and the computer is there was like the solitaire game. Yeah. And it's her initials. She just keeps writing her initials. It's called a Patrick Swayze in Ghost. MF Emmy, Emmy and. Yeah, yeah. man. That scene was. That was creepy. I love that.
00;57;15;22 - 00;57;37;01
Yeah, See that? That's what makes this movie so much fun is because it's like a ghost. I mean, it is a ghost story, but it's it's not the type of ghost story you think you're going to get, but it still plays into those sort of ghost story tropes to keep you do it, to kind of like to entertain you, but also to kind of mess with you.
00;57;37;03 - 00;57;57;29
So yeah, those moments are super fun. The tension is so good in this movie. Well, what's great about that too, is, is is that moment it like we were talking about like how Claire needs to be validated by certain things. Claire is also valid. Her suspicions, her fears, all of her concerns are also validated by the ghost in the movie.
00;57;58;02 - 00;58;28;19
Because at that point, you know, obviously it doesn't mean that Norman is going to believe her. But as an audience, like, that's objectively haunted like these, all these things are legitimate. We just watched it, which I thought was a really cool. I really like that. What was your favorite scare in the movie, either from the actual monster or from the supposed supernatural monster?
00;58;28;22 - 00;58;56;21
I think my favorite is when he's got her in. Harrison Ford has her in the bathtub and what's he doing? He he repositions her for something and when her head falls back, it's the the ghost. It's like the dead body of the. he's the ghost. Yeah, he sees the ghost. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And it's. You don't see it coming.
00;58;56;21 - 00;59;21;21
It freaks Fritz him out and he hits his head and all that. So, yeah, that was probably. That got me a little bit. Yeah, that's a great moment. yeah, I like that a lot. And that kind of sort of like, up the stakes for Norman to at that point where it's like, shit, He's thinking. He's just looking after his reputation and he's like, I'm dealing with the ghost of the girl that I murdered.
00;59;21;27 - 00;59;47;19
Like, what the fuck is like, he's completely lost control at that point, which is fucked up because he still is trying to kind of take control of like these supernatural elements which just reinforces these that narcissism. Well, that that's, that's such a good scene where they both go into the water and he's holding she's like, where's the the, the thing.
00;59;47;19 - 01;00;14;10
And he's like, is this, is this what you're looking for? It it was like the lock of her hair. And the next scene, he throws it in the fire, right? It's a close up of the hair in the fire. And then when it pulls back, he's got the witches and spells book in his hand. Yeah. And so as an audience who if you haven't seen it before, it, you think, okay, he's destroying that to help her.
01;00;14;12 - 01;00;40;28
Is he read in the book, This is how you get rid of it. You have to get rid of the thing. But in reality, he was really just destroying evidence. Exactly. It's so crazy. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. He's such a detestable character that he can't even appreciate the idea that there's this supernatural element. It's about destroying this supernatural element.
01;00;40;28 - 01;01;07;01
It's like, Okay, well, that's just another thing in my way that I need to get rid of, Right? He really is a monster. It's horrible. My mother's new house is haunted. No kidding. What did I tell you about this? No. So my mom just bought a house in the town that we grew up in. That was built in 1843.
01;01;07;04 - 01;01;35;19
boy. Yeah. How do you buy a house that old and not have ghosts problems? Right. So she had some people in Eerie. I think they're called eerie . Like they're like, they're like the people in Poltergeist who, like, come to the house and set up their equipment and all that stuff. And he found some ghosts. What? How did that, how did that like, what is the process?
01;01;35;19 - 01;02;00;05
What happened? I don't know. It's something to do with they use like the the technology of the X-Box Kinect, like that visual kind of thing. Like, that's like the basis of the technology. And I don't know, he's got like this computer screen and it shows people as like stick figures. You kind of see like the body heat image.
01;02;00;05 - 01;02;22;18
Yeah. But then you also see like stick figure like in it. And then when they see the like they were there for like an hour and a half, I think. And right before they were leaving, they apparently saw to go. I don't know if that's just convenient for their cause not to like I'm all aboard the Ghost train.
01;02;22;21 - 01;02;54;04
Well, and that's the thing too, where it's like, Yeah, I believe in ghosts. And then someone tells you this and you're like, watching it and you're like, Okay, come on. It's like, This is good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then you're like, Is it is? They say, what rooms? They showed up and it was in one room, there was like two, there was two, One was like a really tall and he kept like you can see it on the computer screen.
01;02;54;06 - 01;03;24;09
He's like kicking at the guy who's there. Yeah. And then the guy comes back and he's got a huge scratch on his arm, right? And so that was weird. All of these things could have been staged. Yeah, but. But you never know. I Yeah, well, you've been to my parents old house, the one that was also built in like the 17 or 1800s.
01;03;24;11 - 01;04;00;21
And quite a few things. A few questionable things happen that might make you wonder if there were supernatural elements involved. And I remember there was, I was in bed one night and. No, it wasn't even at night. That's. That's not true. I was not in bed either. I was at my desk and I was writing and there was a huge like it sounded as though someone on the opposite side of the wall, like, kicked the wall like, really hard.
01;04;00;24 - 01;04;21;17
Not like, you know, it wasn't like a shifting and the, you know, like the house settling, like it was very clearly like something hit the wall. It scared me. I was like, Well, that's crazy. Now, on the other side where that sound was coming from was the closet in the other room. And I eventually living in that house, I ended up switching rooms.
01;04;21;17 - 01;04;47;01
I ended up moving my bedroom into the room with that closet. And I remember all of the weird things that ever happened that I thought might could be possibly ghost related. All came from that closet. Like, for example, I remember once the closet door just opened on its own in the middle, like literally, I was what, just watched it just open and it had a latch on it and it completely unlatched and opened.
01;04;47;04 - 01;05;14;20
And I would always just hear like, nothing, not like talking or anything like that, but I would always just hear the slightest movement. And it was and it made me think of as it made me. If I were to jump to a conclusion, it was as though, you know, you know, assuming ghosts exists for argument's sake, it was as though a spirit or something was in that closet and it was like kicking at it, like trying to like, get my attention.
01;05;14;22 - 01;05;46;15
When I was in the other room and then opening it when I was in the room. So it's like things like that that make you wonder or it's like, What the hell is happening? Yeah, well, that's it. So until someone can disprove it, I believe it. Well, that's the thing. It's like I always believe that. And then seeing this footage, like, of, like when you really encounter, it's like I wasn't there, but I watched it on Facebook.
01;05;46;17 - 01;06;07;07
Yeah. Then you. Then it was like being when it's right in your face, you're kind of like you kind of question yourself being like, okay, come on, this isn't really easy. You guys are putting this on. You're like the fact that I have to feel like I have to disprove it, but technically can't make me think that maybe it actually could be real.
01;06;07;09 - 01;06;43;14
Right? Right. Those ghosts are tricky. They. They mess with you, man. tricky little, little shits. So if anybody wants to watch that exploration of my mother's haunted house and see these ghosts, we put eerie s link into the shownotes brought to you by Microsoft Kinect. That's right. one thing that you could say is that the real monster might be the bathtub.
01;06;43;16 - 01;07;18;15
It all comes back to the bathtub. That's a crazy scene. Yeah, it's funny. It's like the whole movie is, you know, letting you know that Claire's in this abusive relationship where she's being gaslit and manipulated and, you know, kind of contained from the world, you know, from her passions for all of this stuff. And like you said, to then be trapped in this physical thing, this space that could actually kill her is a nice little cherry on top.
01;07;18;18 - 01;07;50;21
And I mean, in a very disturbing cherry on top. But it really complements that that that whole storytelling element. Right? Does it? I mean, I'm to think back did he drowned her in the bathtub? The. you mean the the the first fake what was her name? Madison. Elizabeth. Frank. Madison Elizabeth. Doctor Frankfurter. You didn't know This is Canon with this is part of the Rocky Horror universe.
01;07;50;23 - 01;08;14;18
no. I would not know if this canon with the Rocky Horror Universe, because I have not seen the Rocky Horror Picture Show blasphemy. I know. All right. Well, we're going to have to do that movie eventually early, because that. my God, Talk about Monster. You know, it's I don't know what I would It's so weird. It's such a bizarre movie.
01;08;14;21 - 01;08;45;15
I would have to do that one. I love Rocky Horror. All right. We'll put that one on the books because I should I can really see that. But yeah, I'm sitting here recording this podcast, and as I look out the window, I see Nanna in the backyard doing manual labor, and I'm sitting here drinking wine, eating pretzels and recording as she's like, dripping in sweat, crying just a little bit.
01;08;45;17 - 01;09;09;14
You just like you're like, Can you keep it down, please? I'm recording a podcast and I can't really taste the wine. When you keep talking, but. Okay, I'm sorry. What were you gonna saying? no, no, you. I kind of cut you off. You're talking about the bathtub. You had asked if Norman drowned Madison in the bathtub. well, yeah, I just.
01;09;09;19 - 01;09;28;09
I guess I was thinking, like, what was the point of the bathtub, other than was it just a did they just pick it to be, like, a cool setting to to set up this suspenseful scene of her at the end? Or did he drowned her in the bathtub? And that's why the ghost is like, in the bathroom. That must I mean, that has to be it, I guess.
01;09;28;09 - 01;09;51;08
I guess I never maybe I don't know. I always associate her, just her body being in the water, that that's where she was. But then that's just where her body was put. Right. Because he did tell he did say that she he came home and she was laying there dead and he couldn't revive her. Then he put her in the car and drove it in there just to hide his story.
01;09;51;15 - 01;10;13;18
I think we find out that that's wrong because he does say something about holding her under the water. I think you nailed it. I think it's because that makes sense. It's like why you're right. Like, why have the bathtub as like this central point, Right? So he drowned her in the bathtub and then put her in the car and drove her and drove the car into the lake.
01;10;13;21 - 01;11;00;05
Yeah. And which also makes sense because literally the first shot of the movie is Claire, like coming up from the water. But it's almost like opens up with the jump scare with we see the ghost face and she's sort of like so it's like that's basically telling us like this all happened, which also is super fucked up because it just again, Norman, it just kind of reminds you how awful he is because not only was he having an affair in their home, he then killed her in their home and in this place that Claire obviously uses for comfort, it's just like he's such a dirty, like, gross dude.
01;11;00;07 - 01;11;40;09
So did she know about the affair? And then she got into the car wreck and forgot about it? Yeah, exactly. Okay. And he was kind of just hoping that that would last because that's why you hear this story of her make throwing like murder, making a scene at the party year because she found out and then Yeah and I think that's what spooks Norman so much is the fact that she is being in his eyes like hysterical about something and he's like even like did that scene when he she comes in and she's like, she's dead, you know, she, you know, she's dead.
01;11;40;09 - 01;11;59;09
And he's like, you mean Mary here, a neighbor? He's like, for a second. He's like, What Do you know what? What, what, what? You know, he's so on edge because clearly his wife is she's piecing something together. All right. So I think that's all we have. I think that's all we know about what lies beneath. That's it.
01;11;59;12 - 01;13;04;00
We don't know anything else. So there's nothing left to talk about. Like, really the what else lies beneath? Nothing whatsoever. That's right. So make sure to follow us on social media. I am at Zach when check on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, and I am Danny Slam on all the social media platforms. As I just mentioned.